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[Rebalance] The Wrecks

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Anthar Thebess 1094	Posted - 2015.06.22 22:13:56 - [1] - Quote Yes we are finally ready for this Why? Currently almost any frigate can instantly kill any wreck. This have good and bad application in game, but usually it is abused to prevent someone from warp , salvage or loot something. Just to prevent this from happening we should think about giving wrecks more EHP. To simplify we will have 5 basic types of wrecks : S , M , L , XL , XXL * S corresponds to current wreck ehp and all it is being created when destroyer or smaller ship dies ( no difference T1/T2 or T3) * M will have around 1.5k EHP. It is created after destroying (battle)cruser or industrial ship * L comes from Battleship (maybe also orca) and have 5k EHP * XL wreck come from carrier, dread, freighter , jump freighter and rorqual , it have 20k EHP * XXL wreck come from supper carrier or Titan, it have around 50k ehp. What will this change? 2 simple examples: - new fleet opportunity : common tactic is to kill all wrecks near your fleet to remove unwanted wapins. - more dead freighters : after ganking a freighter , common thing is to kill the wreck. If this wreck could be left alive , someone will try to pick this stuff up in another freighter , gaining suspect timer Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1098	Posted - 2015.06.23 06:40:56 - [2] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: One question though, is this a silent (I want to loot the suicide ganked freighter wreck we kills before someone shoots it) thread, would it? If so, unsupported.... The only thing better than suicide ganking a freighter is trolling the gankers by popping the wreck... Yes , like you see this is one of the issues. Most important for me are the warpins, after the fleet warp changes those will be very important things on battlefield. "We need to kill one of the leading ships to provide warpin to bombers!" Now you just ungroup your guns and instantly clear those. Remember that when people see ISK they tend to do stupid things , and provide tons of content. If you want to troll the gankers , have a bomber with scrams sitting near the dead freighter. No targeting delay after decloack. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1099	Posted - 2015.06.23 09:41:31 - [3] - Quote It is about logic and all lost content Let wrecks spawn more wrecks. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1103	Posted - 2015.06.23 10:51:09 - [4] - Quote Thats the whole point. Wrecks are wrecks. How many times you see a wreck and want to check what it is there , how many times you warped to wreck.... Look at big fleets, many times you kill wreck to remove warpins - this will be still viable after, just not so easy and instant, and after fleet warp changes very important. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1106	Posted - 2015.06.23 14:11:03 - [5] - Quote Bronson Hughes wrote: I like the idea in principle. I think your proposed EHP values are a bit high, but the idea is sound. +1 HIgh? Cruiser - battlecruiser can have from few to few dozen thousand EHP, so 1.5k ehp wreck is not much. Battleship ehp start from frew dozen thousands , so 5k is small compared to this. Capitals , they tend to have from few hundred thousands to few milion sometimes , again just 20k ehp Supers , well those can go to few dozen milion ehp , and we have only 50k ehp on wreck ( 1 shoot to fighter bombers , or 2 shoots for dread) Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1127	Posted - 2015.06.24 10:29:52 - [6] - Quote Zibru Povens wrote: someone's mad their lewd got #AMT'd also no. Huh? Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1129	Posted - 2015.06.24 11:27:32 - [7] - Quote This is not about the salvaging changes, but about boosting wrecks EHP. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1133	Posted - 2015.06.24 12:24:28 - [8] - Quote Nene Ryuseika wrote: So you don't really propose developing wrecks into more-rounded content creators You just want to nullify the cheap tactic of popping the wreck people use to counter your equally cheap tactic of grab and dash okey then I think it is quite easy to boost EHP of a wreck , and creating new mechanic around it is totally different thing. We need wrecks for warpins after fleet warp changes. Ideas about creating wrecks creating more content are good, but if we ask CCP to give us to much , we will never get it. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1133	Posted - 2015.06.24 13:07:21 - [9] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: Could anyone remind me how long does wreck exist in space? Two hours? Do we need to consider a buff for this part as well? The problem is about instant killing of wreck using a frigate, so you are killing them as fast as you can lock and cycle single gun. In a combat situation , you are clearing wrecks around you and in the middle of your fleet to remove all possible warpins for enemy fleet. Currently we will have fleet warp changes inbound and when FC cannot warp fleet , people waping to wrecks are very important thing, that we need to have. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1133	Posted - 2015.06.24 13:35:32 - [10] - Quote I killed my last freighter long time ago, if you care to check my killboard you will see i go for smaller stuff. In my first post i stated that this will also change way how the higsec ganking works , but it will change much more in fleet engagements. Guess what happens if a guy warp into the middle of enemy fleet, or in the optimal range of guns. He will die fast, but he leave wreck that could still provide a warpin. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1160	Posted - 2015.06.25 07:11:09 - [11] - Quote Krops Vont wrote: If this is considered, which it has been mentioned multiple times, can we have a trade off like scannable/warpable or not warpable on grid like drones are. One thing at the time. Currently we need this badly before fleet warp changes hit. There are many possibilities how we can use wrecks - i like the idea about "mining" bigger ones. CCP could pin topic dedicated to wrecks , as making capital wrecks un-destroyable until completely "mined out" is fun idea for me. THink about all those mining ships around super carrier wreck Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1161	Posted - 2015.06.25 10:03:31 - [12] - Quote Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: In general I have no objection to this idea, however in order to be implemented, looting mechanics (at least) need to be fixed (namely DST fleet hangar mechanic). Otherwise its just a stealth buff to gankers who (obviously) are getting a bit hurt in their backs due to the fact that some of the folks fighting them actually started popping the wrecks (as they - the gankers, suggested in one thread ). So -1 atm, with +1 potential. Also, numbers need to be worked on a bit (tone them down maybe). I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1161	Posted - 2015.06.25 10:34:56 - [13] - Quote Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic. Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking. But at the same time solve very important issue after fleet warp changes. Like in life , you fix something just to brake 2 other things. In nullsec i want to have fun when i undock , rather than watch someone having it 200km away , without getting a proper warpin. Try to get near frigate / destroyer / kite cruiser brawl, when you : - probe - warp alt - warp your ship to alt enemy will be 70km already. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1161	Posted - 2015.06.25 11:22:47 - [14] - Quote Lol. You can warp to wrecks now. I gave simple example how having ability to warp to wrecks is useful for a single player. When you look at the fleet engagements this issue become bigger and bigger. Ever tried to fly in a dictor? Usually you sit around 200-300km away from main engagements , trying not to die from ceptors. When you see a proper moment , or FC ask you to do so , you try to warp into the middle of enemy fleet and keep as many ships as you can on the field. You will die instantly. My record is 17 dictors lost in one fleet. Probably i am bad at this game, but it is really hard to survive without reps, sitting in the middle of the enemy fleet in your own bubble. You cannot count on any other warpin than enemy wreck. CCP is shifting game to cruiser gangs , and they move quite fast , now we are talking about missile ships - so again this will be very fast fleets, kite fleets. No way you can keep enemy fleet bubbled in crucial moment without having ability to warp to "fresh" wreck Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1161	Posted - 2015.06.25 13:11:53 - [15] - Quote Something exploded, it is radioactive then signature can be big. When you have only scrap metal left on field , it should need something more than a 1 bullet to destroy it. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1166	Posted - 2015.06.26 10:49:25 - [16] - Quote It is not about making insane EHP, but forcing people that kill wrecks on field to put effort in this. I love idea about "mining" the wrecks , but lets get as much support to ehp buff , before fleet warp changes hit. If for CCP is hard to difference wreck types and EHP , lets just boost all wreck EHP from 500 to around 10.000. Still 1 variable that is probably sitting somewhere in the database. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1166	Posted - 2015.06.26 14:20:47 - [17] - Quote Jin Kugu wrote: Popping wrecks is already common in nullsec and I don't doubt that with fleetwarp changes anti-support roles will be ordered to always shoot wrecks in range. At the moment there is nothing at all you can do to stop someone from killing a wreck instantly. Anything can lock and kill it instantly. There is no counterplay. Can you give any reason balancing wrecks is not a good change for everyone? Your comment was that this buffs people looting wrecks too, wich is a pretty obvious result of these changes. Is there any gameplay or balance reason this is not a good thing? Your personal feelings towards certain groups are not a reason to stop good changes. I posted thing about ganking , as this is obvious that this will be also considered as some buff to this activity - every one is aware about this. When you fly a while in nullsec you will notice how fast people are adapting to new stuff - as here is just adapt , or die. When we are talking about kiting, long range doctrines - in order to engage enemy you need to be in similar doctrine , or have ability to tackle enemy ships , especially when they starting to die as "reps are not holding". Basic ship used to tackle large group of enemy ships is a dictor, dictor that cannot probe by himself, so he can warp to other fleet member or for example a wreck in the middle of enemy fleet. Nullsec FC are not stupid people. Inability to warp fleet will be abused , and clearing the field from potential warpins will be very important task. This will not be something new, countless times i already did this after FC requested this. You can instantly lock any wreck and kill it using one gun. Now , the question is. Do we want this to work this way after next patch. I don't . After years playing this game i had enough blue balling over the years. Killing wrecks will be used mostly to prevent bigger engagements not to promote them. I prefer to die than constantly rewarp on the battlefield - as this is fun. This will not make higsec ganking harder or easier, scooping stuff by other freighter will give the pilot aggro - any one can tackle it. You see a broken mechanic connected to fleet hangars , address this issue to CCP. Wrecks must be harder to kill if we want nice, bloody brawls. Laidai Proset wrote: seems like a change that benefits everybody, and just makes sense. maybe make it an average of the raw hp of the CLASS of ships, and not the fitted ships, so like 0.5k for a noobship/shuttle 2k for a frigate 3.5k for a destroyer 5k for a cruiser (mining barges) 10k for a battlecruiser 20k for a battleship 75k for carrier/dreadnaught/freighter/jumpfreighter/orca/rorqual 150k for supercarrier/titan this makes it so it's not nearly as big as the actual ship (with no fittings) but big enough so that having a wreck is relevant Quite high numbers, but i guess keeping 500ehp on a interceptor was mistake from my side. Dead frigate can be very important warp point. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1171	Posted - 2015.06.27 22:51:49 - [18] - Quote CCP want people to show how capable they are in fleets. 20k ehp broadcasted wreck will die instantly , but multiple people will need to use cycle of all guns. Now 1 gun = 1 dead wreck. Summarizing . In order to kill 8 wrecks , currently we need 1 person , ungrouped guns and 8 gun battleship. After this change we will need 20-60 people to do the same depending on the doctrine. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT CHANGE. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1203	Posted - 2015.06.30 20:59:04 - [19] - Quote Keep this topic visible by posting. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1216	Posted - 2015.07.08 10:31:34 - [20] - Quote CCP more ehp on wrecks pls. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1223	Posted - 2015.07.13 08:42:21 - [21] - Quote Rayzilla Zaraki wrote: I support/endorse this product/service. It makes sense. The wreck HP should be a percentage of the ship's hull HP. Yes this also could be the the way. I think that this will require much more work than generic types based on ship class. Each ship have different hp , player can also modify this fitting mods , and training proper skills , so again more and more things to calculate. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1225	Posted - 2015.07.14 21:16:56 - [22] - Quote Read all posts. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1229	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:23:50 - [23] - Quote It is not about annoy someone , but to balance battle field. Look at this this way. I have 8 battleship wrecks - if i want to remove all of them now i need 1 person in 8 gun battleship, that will split guns , and destroy all of them in 1 cycle. Now lets assume that battleship wreck have 20k ehp in structure. This give us 8*20 = 120k of ehp that needs to be applied to have the same effect. Assuming 4k alpha from all guns , we need 5 ships per wreck to destroy it , so 40 people need to lock, and waste 1 gun cycle to achieve the same thing. Before not all the people will find proper wreck , lock it fast enough we are talking about viable warpin points for around 10 seconds. On a nullsec battleship - this is a long time. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1236	Posted - 2015.07.24 08:38:20 - [24] - Quote We can only have hope. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1241	Posted - 2015.07.28 07:07:19 - [25] - Quote Maldiro Selkurk wrote: i make jobs2 wrote: I like this idea, I'm tired of abandoning wrecks so my friend can loot them and having some troll come into my mission and shoot them, not even take them. good idea +1 Exactly why this should NOT be put into the game. Sorry , this will be hard , fleet objectives are far more important than trolling other people. Trust me , I'm trolling FC's almost on every fleet. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1242	Posted - 2015.07.29 08:43:16 - [26] - Quote Lifespan is not so important , usually fight ends sooner than wrecks disappear , even if not there is usually enough new ones. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1261	Posted - 2015.07.31 07:50:59 - [27] - Quote Ella Echerie wrote: This makes sense for several reasons +1 What other positive or negative things you see in this change? Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1317	Posted - 2015.10.05 12:52:53 - [28] - Quote Once more unto the breach Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1368	Posted - 2015.11.03 07:47:23 - [29] - Quote If you like this thread please post here to keep it visible. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Anthar Thebess 1406	Posted - 2016.01.26 08:31:55 - [30] - Quote Never Forget Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Anthar Thebess 1408	Posted - 2016.01.26 11:43:47 - [31] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: While we are at it can we make them probable? The same apply to all containers and similar stuff - for sure they need to be harder to probe than ships. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Anthar Thebess 1409	Posted - 2016.01.27 08:15:35 - [32] - Quote Thron Legacy wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: - more dead freighters some people just want to see the world burn EVE world is designed to burn. Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!
Anthar Thebess 1410	Posted - 2016.02.01 14:49:09 - [33] - Quote Bit long reply https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6312643#post6312643 Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists Show your support to The Cause!

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